Michael Jackson and Farrah Fawcett Pass Away

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Re: Michael Jackson and Farrah Fawcett Pass Away

Post by Donna.♥ on Mon Jun 29, 2009 2:25 pm

Heather wrote:i guess fame can drive everyone a bit mental after a while, he had it his whole life. But i dont think he ever had it in him to abuse children like that, he didnt even like people swearing cos he was proper christian and that, its like saying, mother teresa went on a drive by shooting with the other nuns ya know, its ridic!! he just always seemed like a really quiet, polite, well spoken man. awww gawd im gonna cry Sad

Well said Heather. I don't think he did either.
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Re: Michael Jackson and Farrah Fawcett Pass Away

Post by Camm on Mon Jun 29, 2009 2:40 pm

Heather wrote:i guess fame can drive everyone a bit mental after a while, he had it his whole life. But i dont think he ever had it in him to abuse children like that, he didnt even like people swearing cos he was proper christian and that, its like saying, mother teresa went on a drive by shooting with the other nuns ya know, its ridic!! he just always seemed like a really quiet, polite, well spoken man. awww gawd im gonna cry Sad

To be honest, being religious doesn't stop things like that. There are fairly vicious rumours going around about priests.
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Re: Michael Jackson and Farrah Fawcett Pass Away

Post by Heather on Mon Jun 29, 2009 3:28 pm

its all about rumours though innit....rumours dont mean it actually happened (gary glitter excluded..<ehem>)
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Re: Michael Jackson and Farrah Fawcett Pass Away

Post by Vi on Mon Jun 29, 2009 3:36 pm

Just because someone is religious it doesn't make them a better person. I'm sick of Christians and others thinking they're sooo superior to everyone else. I'm an atheist and i still have morals of what is right and wrong, probably the same views as most Christians.

Guilty or not, child molestation charges are nothing to be taken lightly. The man was NOT a saint. Its disgusting to see everyone claim he is when 90% of these people were probably down his back a few years ago calling him a pedophile when the case was going to trial.

Its not like Jackson was a targeted celebrity. He wasn't known to be an asshole so i doubt someone would make up rumours for money. He was a very respected man at one time. He was always in massive debt so its not like they'd be making too much money out of him by making up things.

I just feel for the kids. It was obvious as the sky is blue that he was not their biological father but now their birth mother doesn't want anything to do with them either. Its the kids who are truly suffering in all of this.

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Re: Michael Jackson and Farrah Fawcett Pass Away

Post by Summer on Mon Jun 29, 2009 7:34 pm

Donna.S2 wrote:
Heather wrote:i guess fame can drive everyone a bit mental after a while, he had it his whole life. But i dont think he ever had it in him to abuse children like that, he didnt even like people swearing cos he was proper christian and that, its like saying, mother teresa went on a drive by shooting with the other nuns ya know, its ridic!! he just always seemed like a really quiet, polite, well spoken man. awww gawd im gonna cry Sad

Well said Heather. I don't think he did either.

I completely agree with both of you and I have never thought he could be so cruel, because I believe music and a voice that beautiful would never come from an abuser. Sad


Violet wrote:
Its not like Jackson was a targeted celebrity. He wasn't known to be an asshole so i doubt someone would make up rumours for money. He was a very respected man at one time. He was always in massive debt so its not like they'd be making too much money out of him by making up things.

Michael for a long time had controversy and rumours thrown at him. He was also a very private and caring person, which is why people could get away with saying anything. Please don't think his accusers didn't get any money, he gave them millions of dollars. If it had really happened, in my heart, I believe they would've done everything they could to stop Michael, but as soon as they got the money it was all over.
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Re: Michael Jackson and Farrah Fawcett Pass Away

Post by SmileAWhile on Mon Jun 29, 2009 9:08 pm

Okay I've got to add my 2 cents to this discussion...

Violet wrote:Just because someone is religious it doesn't make them a better person. I'm sick of Christians and others thinking they're sooo superior to everyone else. I'm an atheist and i still have morals of what is right and wrong, probably the same views as most Christians.

I agree, Vi. I know there are atheists and people of different religious backgrounds with morals and who know the difference between right and wrong. I view religion as a personal issue and I donít try and enforce my religious views upon anyone else but donít mind voluntary discussion about it.

Guilty or not, child molestation charges are nothing to be taken lightly. The man was NOT a saint. Its disgusting to see everyone claim he is when 90% of these people were probably down his back a few years ago calling him a pedophile when the case was going to trial.

Its not like Jackson was a targeted celebrity. He wasn't known to be an asshole so i doubt someone would make up rumours for money. He was a very respected man at one time. He was always in massive debt so its not like they'd be making too much money out of him by making up things.

Sorry Vi but I totally disagree that he wasn't a targed celebrity and I agree with Summer. Yes, MJ wasn't a saint just like everyone else. MJ came across as a kind and compassionate person but he was human and had flaws like all of us. But that still doesnít justify the amount of abuse he got. People don't care about people's good character when money's involved. The nicest of people can still be persecuted by others and those kind of evil people don't mind bringing others down for their own selfish needs.

MJ may have been in debt but he still had millions of dollars to spend and I know he paid at least one of his accusers, Jordan Chandler, millions of dollars ($22m I think was reported) back in the early 90ís. After MJís death, there are now reports that Jordan has apparently admitted that MJ did not sexually abuse him and that his dad forced him to say those things so they could get the money. Despite the fact that he was in a lot of debt, mainly over the past decade of his life, MJ was still in a position to pay those accusers millions of dollars so financial motivation could definitely be a reason why those kids and their families came forward. We donít know for sure what went on and people have formed their own opinions and I personally believe MJ did not carry out such acts on children. Yes I agree, child molestation should not be taken lightly at all, the judicial system knows this and knew that MJís celebrity status shouldnít have swayed their decision. At the end of it all, MJ was acquitted and it should be left as that.

I just feel for the kids. It was obvious as the sky is blue that he was not their biological father but now their birth mother doesn't want anything to do with them either. Its the kids who are truly suffering in all of this.

I really feel for his kids too. They've lost their father- whether he's biologically their father has little to do it with it since he was the one who raised these kids, obviously with the help of nannies there as well. Thereís all this talk about a Ďbitter legal custody battleí and I really hope it doesnít end up like this for the kids' sake. Debbie Rowe is apparently said to have given up her parental rights and really hasnít been in their lives much so despite the fact sheís the mother of 2 of the kids, I wonder whether sheíll really want to be a mother to them? So far it seems as if the kids are with their grandparents which is probably the best for now.

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Re: Michael Jackson and Farrah Fawcett Pass Away

Post by SmileAWhile on Mon Jun 29, 2009 9:23 pm

Summer wrote:
Violet wrote:
Donna.S2 wrote:I love your Avvy Heather. That's a really good idea.

Yes, very much so a shock but they all die young I guess. Isn't it ironic that too much love can kill you? I mean the public loved him so much and he had so many fans that he was under all that stress. Even if it was the overdose that killed him, surely the stress contributed even a bit. Sad

Just makes you realise that anyone can die at anytime. You really don't know. But his death has somehow brought the world together.

I'm going to be a complete ignorant idiot now but I've never heard of Farrah Fawcett. I mean no disrespect, I just personally had never heard of her. But that's probably because my head is under a rock somewhere.

In the 80's yes. Before he earned the name Wacko Jacko.


Michael's true fans never stopped loving him and I hope he knew that. It's just a shame that it is not always shown until someone dies. Sad

I think nobody deserves to be called 'Wacko', especially in such a public way. He was obviously distressed for years over all the controversy, I don't know how he coped for so long. Sad

Agreed.

I do believe Michael was treated incredibly badly by the media. Celebrities these days do get a lot of abuse pointed in their direction in particular from trashy tabloids but some of the things written about Michael due to his superstardom just took it to a next level. No one deserves that kind of treatment. And itís not just stuff about the child abuse allegations, other things like getting unnecessarily invasive and nasty about his private life just isnít justified. Yes there are some things Michael did which went against the norm but living in the spotlight can do these things to people- weíve seen numerous celebrities self destruct in front of our eyes and itís a sad reality. MJ never really got to have a childhood and you can tell that really affected him emotionally. He was such a talented guy but he still had many personal issues and ultimately, was very lonely Sad

MJ has affected people in different ways. Everyone doesn't have to be a fan of him, I know there are people who don't think much about him or his music and that's fine, each to their own but I truly believe he has achieved so much that many can only dream of and he's brought a lot of happiness into the lives of people all over the world. I have so many childhood Michael Jackson memories since I practically grew up listening to him with my family. My dad was quite a big fan and even went to see him live at the London Wembley arena during the early 90's. Despite all the ups and downs, he will be missed by many. RIP MJ Sad

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Re: Michael Jackson and Farrah Fawcett Pass Away

Post by Heather on Mon Jun 29, 2009 9:43 pm

poor bloke...its gonna be a while before i get over this.



but on a lighter note, i learnt how to moonwalk..go me! cheers
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Re: Michael Jackson and Farrah Fawcett Pass Away

Post by rhi on Tue Jun 30, 2009 12:10 am

YOU LEARNT HOW TO MOONWALK?!?!? teach me Razz well, i know how to do it but whenever i do it i just end up walking backwards Sad

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Re:Michael and Farrah...

Post by Serenity-helena on Tue Jun 30, 2009 12:16 am

Look, I've never been interested enough in Michael Jackson for any real input here, but any guy (no matter how complex his life is) that dangles a baby over a balcony is a t**t. Even with a tight and secure grip and only for a few seconds is still madness. Mind you, some may excuse him as he did cover the baby's head with a tea-towel so at least the little might could'nt see how far he could possibly have fallen to his death.! scratch

I feel it for the masses. He was a great inspiration, songwriter, showman ect. I probably have a Jackson CD somewhere around. It's the masked kiddies he left behind I feel it for. They adored their very different father after all.
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Re: Michael Jackson and Farrah Fawcett Pass Away

Post by Donna.♥ on Tue Jun 30, 2009 4:20 am

Serenity-helena wrote:Look, I've never been interested enough in Michael Jackson for any real input here, but any guy (no matter how complex his life is) that dangles a baby over a balcony is a t**t. Even with a tight and secure grip and only for a few seconds is still madness. Mind you, some may excuse him as he did cover the baby's head with a tea-towel so at least the little might could'nt see how far he could possibly have fallen to his death.! scratch

I feel it for the masses. He was a great inspiration, songwriter, showman ect. I probably have a Jackson CD somewhere around. It's the masked kiddies he left behind I feel it for. They adored their very different father after all.

When you don't have a childhood and don't know what it's like to have a normal life; when you're surrounded by papparazzi wherever you go; when people are watching every move you make; when helicopters surround your house every day; when you have cameras in your face and people trying to catch photos of you everywhere you go; when people follow you into the toilet and put cameras under the door (i've heard him say that in an interview); when you are so famous that the audience is exhausted from screaming just by being there on a stage without even doing anything... i think you tend to go a bit crazy...

I don't know about you, but who knows what was going through his mind when he did that? Sure, dangling a baby is wrong, but I don't believe we are in the position to judge what he was going through. Anyone that famous is sure to go a bit insane. Who wouldn't wear a mask in public if it would protect his children's faces from being put on the news.

Personally, I feel for him. I don't think anybody on earth has a right to judge what he was going through as he probably was and is the most famous.

And just for the record, they're now saying that he really is their father and the interview saying he wasn't was a fake:
http://news.ninemsn.com.au/entertainment/831672/rowes-jackson-interview-fake-says-lawyer


Last edited by Donna.S2 on Tue Jun 30, 2009 4:37 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Michael Jackson and Farrah Fawcett Pass Away

Post by Summer on Tue Jun 30, 2009 4:36 am

^ I completely agree with and understand what you are saying Donna. I always thought he was so proud of his children and so happy to be a father, that he would never purposely put them in danger. I am sure it's all a very crazy and surreal and maybe even overwhelming moment to have fans screaming outside your hotel room.


Last edited by Summer on Tue Jun 30, 2009 5:08 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Michael Jackson and Farrah Fawcett Pass Away

Post by Karen on Tue Jun 30, 2009 4:53 am

Donna, if I can recall, he did explain that balcony incident in an interview. May have been on 20/20, not sure.

Despite all of his faults, I managed not to judge MJ too harshly when I was younger because, no pun intended, everything is not black and white: because of his shyness, lack of childhood, and well known abusive father. Speaking of, I was so appreciative of the few people at last night's BET awards who expressed sympathy toward Katherine, and not Joe (who was in attendance). His child died and he's out promoting a new record label. Unbelievable. But that's Joe Jackson for ya. Okay, that's my two cents. :/
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Re: Michael Jackson and Farrah Fawcett Pass Away

Post by Summer on Tue Jun 30, 2009 6:40 am

I'm sure Joe Jackson must be feeling the loss in some sort of way. From what I know, people like that do not always show remorse. He probably doesn't even realize the pain he has caused. Michael and possibly his siblings must've been so scared. Sad I have heard Janet and La Toya speak of similiar. I do feel sorry for Michael's mother, losing one of her children. I'm sure she suffered to, it must've been hard watching her children grow up scared of their father.
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Re: Michael Jackson and Farrah Fawcett Pass Away

Post by Camm on Tue Jun 30, 2009 7:11 am

Donna.S2 wrote:
When you don't have a childhood and don't know what it's like to have a normal life; when you're surrounded by papparazzi wherever you go; when people are watching every move you make; when helicopters surround your house every day; when you have cameras in your face and people trying to catch photos of you everywhere you go; when people follow you into the toilet and put cameras under the door (i've heard him say that in an interview); when you are so famous that the audience is exhausted from screaming just by being there on a stage without even doing anything... i think you tend to go a bit crazy...

I think that MJ kinda brought it on though. His eccentricity brought on all the media attention. Bruce Springsteen was just as famous and talented, but he just lived his life as normal, went out and lived and never got hounded by the paparazzi, at least not at the levels that MJ did.
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Re: Michael Jackson and Farrah Fawcett Pass Away

Post by Donna.♥ on Tue Jun 30, 2009 2:22 pm

I think this interview touches on A LOT of what we've been discussing.



He seems so innocent, bless him. Sad

There's a part 2 and 3 on youtube if anyone's interested, but I thought the first one was the most related to what we are talking about, mainly from the middle.
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Re: Michael Jackson and Farrah Fawcett Pass Away

Post by Chrissy on Tue Jun 30, 2009 2:54 pm

He also had "Peter Pan" complex... he wanted to around kids all the time so that he could have a "proper childhood'. They say the trial in 2005 is what wiped him out and he never recovered. Poor guy.

On a happier note, has anyone seen him live? Errr.... some of you guys were probably too young... or maybe not born yet.... but my brother went to the Bad tour in 1987, said it was the single most amazing thing he's ever seen, hands down.

That's the MJ I remember. Smile

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Re: Michael Jackson and Farrah Fawcett Pass Away

Post by Donna.♥ on Tue Jun 30, 2009 2:58 pm

Chrissy wrote:He also had "Peter Pan" complex... he wanted to around kids all the time so that he could have a "proper childhood'. They say the trial in 2005 is what wiped him out and he never recovered. Poor guy.

On a happier note, has anyone seen him live? Errr.... some of you guys were probably too young... or maybe not born yet.... but my brother went to the Bad tour in 1987, said it was the single most amazing thing he's ever seen, hands down.

That's the MJ I remember. Smile

I bought his DVD today!! I know it's not the same as the real thing, but yeah. I haven't seen it yet though.
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Re: Michael Jackson and Farrah Fawcett Pass Away

Post by Camm on Tue Jun 30, 2009 5:01 pm

Growing up in the public eye hardly means that you'll have a troubled adulthood. Look at Jodie Foster, she's been famous for many years, she rose to prominence in '76 in Taxi Driver, yet she is a well-rounded person. As is Drew Barrymore, who did have a troubles growing up, but is now extremely well-rounded.
These rumours didn't eventuate for no reason, I must say.
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Re: Michael Jackson and Farrah Fawcett Pass Away

Post by Heather on Tue Jun 30, 2009 5:48 pm

Chrissy wrote:He also had "Peter Pan" complex... he wanted to around kids all the time so that he could have a "proper childhood'. They say the trial in 2005 is what wiped him out and he never recovered. Poor guy.

On a happier note, has anyone seen him live? Errr.... some of you guys were probably too young... or maybe not born yet.... but my brother went to the Bad tour in 1987, said it was the single most amazing thing he's ever seen, hands down.

That's the MJ I remember. Smile

J. M Barrie had that....and he wrote peter pan...pretty sure he was accused of indecency aswell...some people Mad honestly
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Re: Michael Jackson and Farrah Fawcett Pass Away

Post by SmileAWhile on Tue Jun 30, 2009 5:55 pm

Early fame doesnít always lead to a troubled adulthood but it does in most cases. Plus Michael Jacksonís fame is on another level compared to those youíve mentioned and he has always been under very intense scrutiny and pressure since a very early age. Other factors such as his relationship with his father may have contributed to his issues. Yeah the rumours didnít just come out of nowhere in some cases, people obviously picked up his eccentric behaviour and made huge stories about it because of his superstardom. It wasnít just his eccentricity though, other vicious rumours were spread about MJ. Iím not saying that we should all just excuse MJís past behaviour but it helps to put things into context.

I agree Donna about judging him. The phrase ĎWho are we to judge?í always pops up in my mind when talking about MJ. Yes it is in human nature for us to judge others based on limited information but people still need to take into account his whole personal situation before making sweeping and hurtful claims.

And Karona Iíve also read those things about Joe Jackson and it does make me a bit suspicious about him. We donít know the full story about him but he has been portrayed quite badly by others and even Michael has admitted how scared he was of him and how abusive he was towards his family. MJís song ĎMan In The Mirrorí practically gives away why he wanted to change his appearance (so he doesnít look like his father). At the end of the day, Joeís son has passed away and people grieve in different ways. Joe could be acting better given the circumstances but I guess thatís just his character.

Chrissy, yes I can only watch past performances of MJ to see how amazing he was on stage. As I previously mentioned, my dad went to one of his shows in London in the early 90s so I was way too young to go and obviously my dad was absolutely blown away Very Happy

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Re: Michael Jackson and Farrah Fawcett Pass Away

Post by Vi on Tue Jun 30, 2009 6:07 pm

I'm not saying he is guilty of those charges. I don't know. I wasn't in the room, i didn't see it happen. But i just think serious accusations like this should not be wiped away clean slate just because of who he is/was. Its annoying how some of his biased fans think him being a music icon is a good enough excuse. Its not.

I'm referring to this Thriller days SmileAWhile. He was on top of the world then! Its when he starting bleaching his skin and getting all that surgery and fucking up his face people started thinking he was weird. It was believed he had the mind-span/IQ of a 12 year old anyway so he wasn't the brightest individual.

Sorry but i don't buy that "i had a rough childhood" excuse for anyone. Whether they'd be a bum on the street or even Michael Jackson. Theres no excuse to be able to harm others and get away with it because YOU had a rough up bringing. Why should someone else suffer because you did? Two wrongs do not make a right. It absolutely disgusts me when i read about some fucker getting 2 years in psych care because they blamed their father for beating them as a child as an excuse to butcher someone to death. Hey thats our justice system for ya (if you even wanna call it that...) but thats a discussion for another day.

I know this sounds nasty, but believe me i try not to make it be but its not like he was in the prime of his career. He had past it i reckon. I know that doesn't make it any easier for you fans but its not like his career was just kicking off and people were starting to realise he was the real deal, kicking crappy hair metal bands off the charts forever and showing a different side to music, releases 2 albums and then all of a sudden...just dies like that. And having your death announced by Kurt Loader of all people...

Thats my 2 cents anyway. All the stories coming out are just bizarre. I called it when i knew all these assholes would jumped at the opportunity to make a quick buck from his death. I don't know what to believe...

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Re: Michael Jackson and Farrah Fawcett Pass Away

Post by SmileAWhile on Tue Jun 30, 2009 6:23 pm

Violet wrote:I'm not saying he is guilty of those charges. I don't know. I wasn't in the room, i didn't see it happen. But i just think serious accusations like this should not be wiped away clean slate just because of who he is/was. Its annoying how some of his biased fans think him being a music icon is a good enough excuse. Its not.

I'm referring to this Thriller days SmileAWhile. He was on top of the world then! Its when he starting bleaching his skin and getting all that surgery and fucking up his face people started thinking he was weird. It was believed he had the mind-span/IQ of a 12 year old away so he wasn't the brightest individual.

Sorry but i don't buy that "i had a rough childhood" excuse for anyone. Whether they'd be a bum on the street or even Michael Jackson. Theres no excuse to be able to harm others and get away with it because YOU had a rough up bringing. Why should someone else suffer because you did? Two wrongs do not make a right. It absolutely disgusts me when i read about some fucker getting 2 years in psych care because they blamed their father for beating them as a child as an excuse to butcher someone to death. Hey thats our justice system for ya (if you even wanna call it that...) but thats a discussion for another day.

I know this sounds nasty, but believe me i try not to make it be but its not like he was in the highlight of his career. He had past it i reckon. I know that doesn't make it any easier for you fans but its not like his career was just kicking off and people were starting to realise he was the real deal, kicking crappy hair metal bands off the charts forever and showing a different side to music, releases 2 albums and then all of a sudden...just dies like that.

Yeah I see what you're saying Vi. If you have child molestation in mind when you're talking about excuses for a rough childhood then of course I totally agree. Child molestation/child sexual abuse is absolutely wrong given any kind of circumstances and I am definitely not making excuses for MJ in relation to that. Just as you said, no of us were there so we don't know exactly what went on. When I'm referring to his troubled childhood, I'm mostly thinking about how his childhood and other personal affairs contributed to his eccentric behaviour that became more and more noticeable later on in his life. A troubled childhood, intense pressure and fame can definitely make an impact on someone's psychological well-being. Just as I said in one of my earlier posts, I agree that his fame should not be a factor when considering whether he's guilty or not. He should be treated like anyone else when it comes to the judicial system and that should have been the case when he was found not guilty.

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Re: Michael Jackson and Farrah Fawcett Pass Away

Post by Heather on Tue Jun 30, 2009 6:36 pm

Violet wrote:I'm not saying he is guilty of those charges. I don't know. I wasn't in the room, i didn't see it happen. But i just think serious accusations like this should not be wiped away clean slate just because of who he is/was. Its annoying how some of his biased fans think him being a music icon is a good enough excuse. Its not.

I'm referring to this Thriller days SmileAWhile. He was on top of the world then! Its when he starting bleaching his skin and getting all that surgery and fucking up his face people started thinking he was weird. It was believed he had the mind-span/IQ of a 12 year old anyway so he wasn't the brightest individual.

Sorry but i don't buy that "i had a rough childhood" excuse for anyone. Whether they'd be a bum on the street or even Michael Jackson. Theres no excuse to be able to harm others and get away with it because YOU had a rough up bringing. Why should someone else suffer because you did? Two wrongs do not make a right. It absolutely disgusts me when i read about some fucker getting 2 years in psych care because they blamed their father for beating them as a child as an excuse to butcher someone to death. Hey thats our justice system for ya (if you even wanna call it that...) but thats a discussion for another day.

I know this sounds nasty, but believe me i try not to make it be but its not like he was in the prime of his career. He had past it i reckon. I know that doesn't make it any easier for you fans but its not like his career was just kicking off and people were starting to realise he was the real deal, kicking crappy hair metal bands off the charts forever and showing a different side to music, releases 2 albums and then all of a sudden...just dies like that. And having your death announced by Kurt Loader of all people...

Thats my 2 cents anyway. All the stories coming out are just bizarre. I called it when i knew all these assholes would jumped at the opportunity to make a quick buck from his death. I don't know what to believe...

dont be dissin' da hair metal...its swwwwwwwweet!! Twisted Evil
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Re: Michael Jackson and Farrah Fawcett Pass Away

Post by Camm on Tue Jun 30, 2009 6:40 pm

The childhood abuse allegations can't be explaination. None of the other Jackson's went weird (nobody mention Janet's "wardrobe malfunction"), or at least if they did it wasn't as highly publicised as Michael.
And yes, I know that Michael was the most talented one, but the whole Jackson 5 were as famous as each other at one stage.
But, in 1982, Bruce Springsteen's album Nebraska and MJ's Thriller were two of the biggest albums, but because Springsteen to hide, he was left alone, MJ complained about the media attention, but it was really a result of his hermit-like activity that he copped it. If he went about his business like normal I'm sure there wouldn't have been so much pressure from the paparazzi.
Plus Springsteen is still kicking arse. Anyone hear the theme song he did for The Wrestler? It's awesome!
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